Reread ahoy! Welcome back to the Oathbringer Avalanche, as we polish off the remaining twelve POVs in this crazy long chapter, beginning with Adolin fighting the thunderclast just after Venli speaks her first Ideal. This wraps up the battle part of the finale, but there’s still a ways to go. Buckle up, and let’s ride this thing. Hands in the air! (Also, apologies for the mixed metaphors.)
Reminder: We’ll potentially be discussing spoilers for the ENTIRE NOVEL in each reread—if you haven’t read ALL of Oathbringer, best to wait to join us until you’re done. (Are you kidding me? Is someone out there not finished?)
No Cosmere spoilers in the main article this week—we’re much too busy with Roshar at the moment.
Alice: Before we get started, you may have noticed that “Paige from New Mexico” is joining me again this week. Lyndsey is engaged in the emergency production of fabric masks for a nearby hospital; while she is really sad to miss sharing this chapter with y’all, that’s a higher priority. It’s not so much a matter of protecting those who cannot protect themselves; more protecting those who are busy protecting others. If you’re a stitcher, please check for local needs and help out if you can. If the hospitals don’t need them, there are others who do. Many veterinarians, for example, are donating their supplies to the hospitals and clinics, and would be extremely grateful for cloth masks to replace them. We’re going to get through this, you know.
Paige: Love that Lyndsey is fighting the good fight by helping with this worthy cause. I’m honored to stand in for her. What’s up, Sanderfans? Hope everyone is doing well and keeping safe. Maintain that social distance, stay home (when possible), and scrub-a-dub-dub before you use generous amounts of hand sanitizer.
Chapter Recap
WHO: Everyone, again.
WHERE: Thaylen City, again.
WHEN: 1174.2.8.1, again.
Beginning on page 1167 in your hardcover: Adolin and Maya fight the thunderclast despite not having his Plate, he’s badly injured. Renarin finds and heals his brother, then takes over the thunderclast effort with help from a Thaylen Shardbearer carrying Maya; once that thing is banished, he finds the Oathgate guarded by twelve Fused but is oddly unfazed by this. Szeth and Lift, with help from Shallan’s Lightweaving, steal back the King’s Drop; Lift takes it to Dalinar in the red mist. Meanwhile, Kaladin is fighting Amaram and varying numbers of Fused, trying to keep them all distracted from Dalinar. Bridge Four, led by a leveled-up Teft, arrives with the first Kholin army troops via Oathgate, just in time for Rock to save Kaladin’s life by killing Amaram. Dalinar embraces the Thrill one last time, and traps it in the perfect gemstone. Odium, the Fused, the parshman army, some of Amaram’s troops, and the Everstorm all vacate the premises. It’s over.
Beginnings
Title: The Spear that Would Not Break
“Ten spears go to battle,” he whispered, “and nine shatter. Did that war forge the one that remained? No, Amaram. All the war did was identify the spear that would not break.”
Heralds:
Jezrien, Herald of Kings. Windrunners. Protecting/Leading. Role: King.
Nalan, Herald of Justice. Skybreakers. Just / Confident, Role: Judge
Talenel, Herald of War. Stonewards. Dependable / Resourceful. Role: Soldier
Ishar, Herald of Luck. Bondsmiths. Pious/Guiding. Role: Priest
Icon: The Double Eye of the Almighty represents the “everyone, again” POVs
Epigraph:
If the journey itself is indeed the most important piece, rather than the destination itself, then I traveled not to avoid duty—but to seek it.
—From The Way of Kings, postscript
Thematic Thoughts
A: This chapter is chock full of awesome moments, and many of them just don’t fit into our usual set of units. When we could put things logically into a unit this week, we did so; the rest are just collected right here.
“All right, Maya,” Adolin said. “We’ve practiced this.”
He wound up, then hurled the Shardblade, which spun in a gleaming arc before slamming into the Fused on Hrdalm’s chest, piercing her straight through. Dark smoke trailed from her eyes as they burned away.
A: Well, so much for “I’m not a Radiant, I can’t do much.” Dude and Deadeye just took out a Fused for the duration of this battle, anyway. Or… at least until the soul can get back to the Everstorm and grab another body, which has to take a few minutes, anyway… And Hrdalm, the Thaylen Shardbearer, is back up and helping Adolin fight the thunderclast.
P: Both Adolin and Kaladin beat up on themselves far more than is healthy. It’s expected with Kaladin, considering his depression. My therapist is constantly telling me to stop being so hard on myself, so I understand Kaladin’s self-deprecation. But I don’t get why Adolin is constantly undervaluing himself when he’s so obviously valuable. This hurling his Mayablade to impale a Fused is HELLA impressive.
Renarin! He didn’t have Plate. How—
The thunderclast’s palm crashed down on Renarin, smashing him. Adolin screamed, but his brother’s Shardblade cut up through the palm, then separated the hand from the wrist.
… He seemed to heal more quickly than Kaladin or Shallan did, as if being crushed wasn’t even a bother.
P: I love that not only did Renarin run toward the thunderclast without hesitation, but he does some awesome Shardblade work whilst being crushed by said thunderclast. It’s really cool to see Adolin witness this and see how awesome his little brother is as a Radiant.
A: Renarin’s always had a warm corner of my heart, so it’s an absolute delight to see him in this chapter, forceful and resolute. (Well, mostly…)
Buy the Book
Rhythm of War
As the first Fused came for him, Szeth ducked into a roll and cancelled his lashing upward. He collided with a rock, acting dazed. He then shook his head, took up his pouch with the ruby, and launched into the air again.
Eight Fused gave chase, and though Szeth dodged between them, one eventually got close enough to seize his pouch and rip it out of his fingers. They swept away as a flock, and Szeth slowly floated down and landed beside Lift, who stepped out of the illusory rock. She held a bundle wrapped in clothing: the real gemstone, which she’d taken from his pouch during his feigned collision. The Fused now had a false ruby—a rock cut into roughly the same shape with a Shardblade, then covered in an illusion.
A: Heh. Remember that bit last week where Lift wanted a favor from Shallan? Now we know what it was. I love watching the Radiants working together, pooling their various skills to achieve crazy/fun things.
P: I adored Lift’s idea and the way she went about asking for Shallan’s assistance with the illusion. That was some very quick and deevy thinking by our littlest Radiant.
A: Last week she had that flippant little line about “Relax, grandpa. Steal the rock. I can do that.” This week, we get to see just how slick she can be, swapping the rocks. That girl.
Within [the red mist] Dalinar was a shadow, with two flying Fused besetting him. …
The hulking Fused came for him, and instead of dodging, Kaladin let the creature ram a knifelike spur into his stomach.
P: I know that the Radiants have the incredible ability to heal themselves, but every time one of them deliberately takes this kind of injury, it makes me cringe. I mean, they’ll heal, yes… but they still feel the pain until they can heal the injury and that’s just… owie. Big bada boom owie.
A: I know, right? He knew what he was going to do and that it would be the best way to accomplish what he needed, but… Yeouch!
… He grabbed the creature’s hand and Lashed him upward and toward the mist. The Fused flipped past his companions in the air, shouting something that sounded like a plea for help. They zipped after him.
P: This creates a very satisfying visual. Fetch, boys!
A: And they made a very satisfying thump when they hit the floor. (Sadly, I couldn’t find a gif for that one. Some of you will recognize it.)
“I made you! I forged you!” He leaped at Kaladin, propelling himself off the ground, hanging in the air.
P: On Lyndsey’s behalf, I’m reminding Alice to keep track of the surges that Amaram uses.
A: I shall endeavor to do so!
And in so doing, he entered Kaladin’s domain.
P: I love this. Kaladin is struggling in this fight with an Unmade-enhanced, double Shardblade wielding lunatic and he can’t get the drop on the guy. But wait… you want to float like a butterfly, do you? Do you feel lucky?
A: Well, not so much, no…
… The highprince swung, but the winds themselves curled around Kaladin, and he anticipated the attack. … He spun and slammed her against the gemstone at Amaram’s heart. The amethyst cracked, and Amaram faltered in the air—then dropped. …
Kaladin floated downward toward him. “Ten spears go to battle,” he whispered, “and nine shatter. Did that war forge the one that remained? No, Amaram. All the war did was identify the spear that would not break.
P: This line is such a stand up and cheer moment. Brandon is so good at such moments and I love this one.
A: Oh, no kidding. This is sheer brilliance. I… I just run out of the right things to say about these scenes. ALL the feels.
Dalinar Kholin knelt not far away, clutching a large ruby that glowed with the same strange phantom light as the Fused. The Reshi girl stood with her diminutive hand resting on his shoulder.
The Blackthorn was crying as he cradled the gemstone.
A: This one, too. That image… I’d love to see a Whelan painting of this scene, but it’s perfectly clear in my mind. After all the terror, the action, the carnage, every single person (except Jasnah) on the edge of being killed, and then… this. Both cause and effect, and it’s beautiful.
P: I’d take a Whelan painting of any of a number of scenes from this massive part 5 Sanderlanche. I’m always down for Whelan art.
Stories & Songs
Kaladin sparred with the Fused who had the strange overgrown carapace…
P: This has got to be one of the creepiest Fused we’ve seen yet.
Kaladin swept with the Sylblade, cutting through the Fused’s forearms. That sheared the spurs completely free and disabled the hands. …
The creature’s cut arms had regrown, and—even as it swung its hands—a large club formed there from carapace.
A: This guy is just weird and nasty. What Surge is it that allows him to regrow limbs and form weapons from its own carapace in mere seconds? Progression, I guess? Whatever it is, YIKES.
Oh, yeah, about that keeping track of Amaram’s Surgebinding! Last week, we caught him using Cohesion and Friction. Here’s more:
The eyes still glowed deeply within, and the stone ground somehow burned beneath his crystal-covered feet, leaving flaming tracks behind.
A: That would be… um… one of the Dustbringer Surges. Division, I think, “the Surge of destruction and decay.”
Amaram launched himself into the air.
He soared in an incredible leap, far higher and farther than even Shardplate would have allowed. And he hung for a time…
“Syl,” he hissed as Amaram landed. “Syl, that was a Lashing. What is he?”
A: Gravitation, I presume.
The ground rippled and became liquid, almost catching him again. Fire trailed behind Amaram’s arms as he swung with both Shardblades. Somehow, he briefly ignited the very air.
A: Those aren’t new, if I’m right and these are Cohesion and Division again. He’ll use Gravitation again, too, in a later scene. So that’s four. As near as I can tell, that’s all he used, though Kaladin would probably say that four Surges was four too many.
P: Every time he used a new Surge, he got scarier.
… the thunderclast collapsed—crushing houses in its fall, but also breaking off its arm. It reached upward with its remaining arm, bleating a plaintive cry. Renarin and his companion—the Thaylen Shardbearer—had cut off both legs at the knees. …
“You did good,” the Thaylen said. He nodded toward the thunderclast, which got to its knees, then slipped. “How to end?”
It will fear you! Glys said from within Renarin. It will go. Make it so that it will go. … Light. You will make it go with light. …
It was in pain. It could hurt. …
Renarin raised his fist and summoned Stormlight. It glowed as a powerful beacon. And…
The red molten eyes faded before that light, and the thing settled down with a last extinguishing sigh.
A: That “bleating a plaintive cry” almost had me feeling sorry for the thing, but… after the way it tried to smash my boys Adolin and Renarin (and everyone else, for that matter)… Nah. It was pretty cool to see it fleeing before Renarin’s Stormlight, though. What a victory for the kid who was “never going to be a soldier.”
P: That was a great moment. The whole scene with Renarin fighting that monster was fantastic.
Do you know how we capture spren, Dalinar? Taravangian had said. You lure the spren with something it loves. You give it something familiar to draw it in… Something it knows deeply. … He lifted the gemstone above his head, and—one last time—embraced the Thrill. …
“Now, old friend, it is time to rest.” …
P: During the Oathbringer beta, I didn’t care for the fact that Dalinar was so nice to the Thrill. Of course, knowing that it had to be lured, I understand Dalinar’s approach. Still don’t really care for it, though. The Thrill is super creepy.
A: I guess I didn’t quote a critical moment there… so I’ll put it here, out of order. This is what makes me sort of understand what was going on:
That very thirst for the struggle—the fight, the victory—had also prepared him to refuse Odium.
“Thank you,” he whispered again to the Thrill, “for giving me strength when I needed it.”
A: Oddly, he’s saying almost the opposite of what Kaladin said about the spear that would not break, but they’re looking at things from different angles. All those years of the Thrill pushing him to win, to never surrender, helped him become the man who could look past the pain to the prize he most wanted—and he truly wanted the freedom of taking responsibility for his own actions.
P: Kudos to Cultivation on a successful plan where Dalinar was concerned!
[Kaladin] couldn’t make out Dalinar anymore, but the mist itself had begun to thrash. Surging and pulsing, it whipped about like it was caught in a powerful wind. …
The red mist imploded, vanishing. All went dark, with the storm overhead growing still.
A: It seems odd that we don’t actually see Dalinar pulling the Thrill into the stone, we just get the effect from multiple other angles—and yet it’s clear as day.
P: The red mist thrashing… what a creepy visual!
Relationships & Romances
“Adolin, don’t be foolhardy!” Renarin grabbed his arm. A burst of healing moved through Adolin like cold water in his veins, causing his pains to retreat.
“But—”
“Get away,” Renarin said. “You’re unarmored. You’ll get yourself killed fighting this thing!”
“But—”
“I can handle it, Adolin. Just go! Please.”
Adolin stumbled back. He’d never heard such forceful talk from Renarin—that was almost more amazing than the monster. Renarin, shockingly, charged at the thing.
P: This was a rather stunning exchange for Adolin… to see his younger brother, who he had looked out for his whole life, who suffered from physical ailments that made him appear to be “weak,” order him to stand down and charge a creature of nightmare? Even knowing that his brother was Radiant, I can’t imagine how shocked Adolin would have been.
A: Heh. It makes me grin just thinking about it. There are a couple of scenes in this chapter where Renarin reflects on the difference in the way people treat him now, but the effect from Adolin’s point of view is delicious.
Bruised & Broken
Shadowed darkness. Whispered words. Szeth slowed to a halt.
“What?” Lift asked. “Crazyface?”
“I…” Szeth trembled, fearspren bubbling from the ground below. “I cannot go into that mist. I must be away from this place.”
The whispers.
… That churning red mist, those faces breaking and re-forming and screaming. Dalinar was still in there, somewhere?
A: I always have mixed feelings about Szeth, but I do feel bad for him here. That red mist is enough to creep anyone out, without hearing whispers and seeing faces in it. With his past, it’s really not a surprise that he can’t bear such a physical manifestation of Nergaoul.
P: I definitely feel bad for Szeth; it’s almost as if he suffers from a form of PTSD.
“I hurt, once,” Amaram said. “Did you know that? After I was forced to kill your squad, I… hurt. Until I realized. It wasn’t my fault.”
A: I know it’s 100% deliberate on Sanderson’s part, but the parallel of Amaram’s and Dalinar’s reactions to the offer of “it’s not your fault” is pretty bold. It’s a big theme in Oathbringer: Who takes responsibility for their own actions, who doesn’t, and how do they handle it? Szeth takes full responsibility for all those deaths, and he’s constantly haunted by them. Moash spends his whole time blaming other people for all the bad things in his life, never acknowledging that his own decisions were part of the cause. Dalinar accepts responsibility, because if everything was someone else’s fault, he hasn’t grown through it. Kaladin takes responsibility for everyone else’s decisions, and he’s on the point of crumbling under that weight. I could go on, but… you get the idea. Accepting responsibility breaks you, in a way that makes it possible for you to grow beyond it. Refusing responsibility breaks you in a different way: Just look at Moash and Amaram.
P: Well said, Alice. As you know, this is one reason why I feel that Moash deserves #noredemption. He gave up that privilege (IMO) when he decided that none of his actions were his fault. Yes, the things that Dalinar did were terrible, but he owns it and refused to let Odium take the burden of his sins from him.
“Didn’t you tell me you’d given up that grief?”
“Yes! I’m beyond guilt!”
“Then why do you still hurt?”
Amaram flinched.
“Murderer,” Kaladin said. “You’ve switched sides to find peace, Amaram. But you won’t ever have it. He’ll never give it to you.
P: It’s interesting that Kaladin sees this in Amaram when Amaram gave himself to Odium. I’ve got to admit to a measure of satisfaction that Kaladin is able to make him flinch when he calls him on it… I’m glad that he hurts.
She had decided to stay with Jasnah in the first place to learn. But when the woman returned from the dead, Shallan had—instead of accepting training—immediately fled. What had she been thinking?
Nothing. She’d been trying to hide away things she didn’t want to face. Like always.
A: Speaking of taking responsibility… Shallan has such a weird combination of things going on. She does, at the bottom of it, take responsibility for what she did, even though the worst of it was instigated by some horrible adults in her life. When the responsibility is too much to bear, though, she hides it away in that deliberate forgetting; while I certainly understand this reaction, she can’t deal with it if she won’t face it.
P: Poor Shallan’s eternal struggle. I fear she’ll never heal until she unpacks all of this strife and faces it fully. I worry about our little Lightweaver.
The lights in their eyes started to go out. … Many immediately fell to their knees, retching on the ground. Others stumbled, holding themselves up by sagging against spears. … the Fused inexplicably retreated back toward the ships. The parshmen rushed to follow, as did many of Amaram’s troops—though some just lay on the broken stones.
A: Sanderson doesn’t elaborate on it, but you have to think, don’t you, that the soldiers who follow the Fused to the ships are probably going to be fighting this war on Odium’s side.
P: Oh, definitely. They’re a bunch of Moashes.
Diagrams & Dastardly Designs
“… Brightlord, there’s been an attack at Urithiru. … It appears that a strike force of some kind arrived at the advent of the Everstorm.” … “Radiant Malata is the only way for our armies to reach us through the Oathgate,” Teshav said. “But we can’t contact her, or any of the Kharbranth contingent. The enemy struck them first. They knew exactly what they had to do to cripple us.”
A: So innocent, they are. The idea that Taravangian and his pet Radiant are trying to sabotage Dalinar just never even occurs to them. Which, of course, is why it’s so effective.
P: One of my pet peeves, this… the unwavering faith in Taravangian. Bah.
Squires & Sidekicks
He crawled out onto the street, half expecting Skar and Drehy to be there to pull him to his feet. Storms, he missed those bridgemen.
A: We miss them too, Adolin. (Recall, at this point we assumed they were dead in the Kholinar palace.)
P: Yeah, Adolin’s mention of these beloved B4 members was a knife-twist when we thought they’d met a bad end.
Rock and Lyn landed next to Renarin.
“Ha!” Rock said. “What happened to uniform? Is needing my needle.”
Renarin looked down at his tattered clothing. “I got hit by a large block of stone. Twenty times… You’re not one to complain, anyway. Is that your blood on your uniform?”
“Is nothing!”
P: Rock chastising Renarin over the state of his uniform is so wonderful. This is such a great moment of levity after the tension of the chapter.
“We had to carry him all the way down to the Oathgate,” Lyn said. “We were trying to get him to you, but he started drawing in Stormlight as soon as he got here.”
“Kaladin is close,” Rock agreed. “Ha! I feed him. But here, today, he fed me. With light!”
P: Honor love you, Rock!
Rock lingered, then grabbed Renarin in a very warm, suffocating, and unexpected embrace.
Renarin did his best not to squirm. … You weren’t supposed to just grab someone like that.
“Why?” Renarin said after the embrace.
“You looked like person who needed hug.”
“I assure you, I never look like that. But, um, I am glad you guys came. Really, really glad.”
“Bridge Four,” Rock said, then launched into the air.
P: Poor Renarin. I feel his discomfort at the extroverted Rock grabbing him in an unexpected and unwanted hug.
A: At the same time, I’m really happy to see his internal acknowledgement that the meaning of it mattered to him. The hug itself was deeply uncomfortable, but Rock’s insistence on their brotherhood was most welcome.
In the darkness, Kaladin could see something streaking from the city. Brilliant white lights flying in the air. …
Amaram raised the Shardblade high.
“Bridge Four,” Kaladin whispered.
An arrow slammed into Amaram’s head from behind… He made a choking sound, then turned about just in time to catch another arrow straight in the chest—right through the flickering gemstone heart. …
A glowing figure stood on some rubble beyond, holding Amaram’s enormous Shardbow. The weapon seemed to match Rock, tall and brilliant, a beacon in the darkness.
P: Of course, the Sanderlanche is full of whoop-and-holler moments, and this one is no different. Someone else did save Kaladin, and of all people, it was Rock, from the rubble, with a Shardbow.
A: This just-in-time rescue was truly a fist-pumper! When you think it through, too, you realize that Rock made a snap decision—not thinking it through at all—that he couldn’t fly fast enough to reach Kaladin in time, but this enormous bow could get an arrow there. I’m sure he knew, even as he did it, what he was doing to himself, but he put Kaladin’s life ahead of his own right here.
Kaladin glanced toward Rock, who stood over Amaram’s body, looking down, the enormous bow held limply in one hand.
P: This made me so sad for Rock, but he did what he had to do to save his Captain.
A: He did, and we don’t know yet what the cost to himself will be. What’s the punishment for a Horneater who takes up arms outside the cultural structure? Rock obviously views it as a serious breach of… well, protocol, if nothing else, but I suspect it’s more than just “rude” to him.
Kara will fight with the others—don’t tell anyone, but she’s been practicing with a spear since childhood, the little cheater.
A: Including this because it’s so cute. Also, it makes me picture Kara Stewart with a spear, and that’s just a priceless image anyway.
P: I can totally see it!
Places & Peoples
The helm had stylized eyebrows like knives sweeping backward, and the Plate was skirted with a triangular pattern of interlocking scales.
A: Thaylen Shardplate FTW! I wonder if its original owner was Thaylen, or if it’s just belonged to that kingdom so long that the eyebrows and fish scales have become inherent.
He’d… he’d gotten too accustomed to the invincibility of Plate. But his suit was back in Urithiru—or hopefully coming here soon on Gaval, his Plate standby.
A: I know this is a pretty minor thing, but I do love the note that they designate a “Plate standby” in case a Shardbearer is away or incapacitated when a battle is happening. Somebody should use it, and this way there’s no arguing about who “somebody” should be.
P: Plate is definitely too valuable to sit around unused in case the bearer is unavailable somehow.
Szeth of the Skybreakers had, fortunately, trained with all ten Surges.
A: How cool is that? There’s so much we don’t know about the Shin and the Stone Shamans yet, but this is a fascinating data point: Some people, and we don’t know who or how many, train with all the Honorblades they hold. Given that (as far as we know) they still hold all the Honorblades except Nale’s and Taln’s, that covers all ten Surges. Hopefully, we’ll learn a lot more about this in book five.
P: I love that Szeth is so knowledgeable regarding the Surges. It shows us at how much of a disadvantage the rest of our Radiants find themselves while trying to figure out their own Surges. Looking at you, Lift and Shallan.
A: With that background, he’d make a great all-around Radiant-trainer. Mental image: Szeth teaching Lift to ice skate. Heh.
Tight Butts and Coconuts
“Any idea where you want us?”
“I’m… um… not really in command or anything…”
“Really?” Lyn said. “That’s your best Knight Radiant voice?”
“Ha!” Rock said.
“I think I used up all my Radianting for the day,” Renarin said.
A: I’m not sure which is funnier, Lyn’s question or Renarin’s answer, but it was one of those precious comedic moments that relieves stress without reducing the excitement one bit. (At least, it is for me.) I have to hand it to him, though, Renarin did a lot of Radianting today. He’s probably not done, either, because he’ll be down there healing everyone once it’s over, as well as working the Oathgate for the next couple of hours.
P: He certainly does his share of Radianting during and after the battle.
Dalinar drifted in the Thrill’s embrace. … He hadn’t changed in one giant leap, but across a million little steps.
The most important always being the next, he thought as he drifted in the red mist. …
A small hand gripped Dalinar’s.
He started, looking down. “L-Lift? You shouldn’t have come in here.”
“But I’m the best at going places I’m not supposed to.” She pressed something into his hand.
The large ruby.
A: I love the way Lift is written. Every time she shows up, it seems, there’s a funny little jolt in the writing. There’s this passage where Dalinar is drifting, thinking deep thoughts, and then blip here’s Lift. He seems to have momentarily forgotten that he sent her to get the King’s Drop and bring it to him. In return, she’s all nonchalantly proud of being where she shouldn’t be yet again. I love Lift.
P: I adore Lift. She’s so wonderfully innocent and earnest.
Weighty Words
One figure didn’t melt like the others. A woman with jet-black hair… stepped between the enemy and Shallan, Radiant, and Veil. The ground turned glossy, the surface of the stone Soulcast into oil. Veil, Shallan, and Radiant were able to glimpse it in the Cognitive Realm. It changed so easily. How did Jasnah manage that?
Jasnah Soulcast a spark from the air, igniting the oil and casting up a field of flames.
P: Jasnah is the unsung hero of the Battle of Thaylen Field. She is so wonderfully badass with her Soulcasting and Shardplate-enhanced soldier-hurling, that she deserves more fan love.
A: Words fail me when I look at what Jasnah does in this battle. The way it’s written is such a weird combination of understated and overwhelming… like Sanderson wants us to know what an incredible badass she is, but he doesn’t want us to focus on her too much because that’s not where the story is right now. I love it. And her.
She took Shallan by the arm—but Shallan wavered, then puffed away. Jasnah froze, then turned to Veil.
“Here,” Radiant said, tired, stumbling to her feet. She was the one Jasnah could feel.
A: This is… I don’t quite know what to say. This started out with Shallan inadvertently creating illusions of Veil and Radiant to support her; then she created extras of herselves to keep the army from killing her; by the end here, she’s got illusions of Veil and Shallan, while the solid one is Radiant. I’m so confused… Also, something just registered. Radiant was wearing Shardplate in the first illusion… does that mean Shallan is actually wearing Shardplate, if she’s Radiant at the end? Jasnah doesn’t mention it, so I assume not, but… huh.
P: Yeah, this could have used some clarification. Perhaps Shallan wasn’t strong enough to manage after what she’d done with her illusions but it was weird for her to become Radiant.
“We shouldn’t have ignored this,” Radiant said. … She slipped—for a moment—into viewing Shadesmar. …
“Not too far,” Jasnah warned. “You can’t bring your physical self into the realm, as I once assumed you could, but there are things here that can feast upon your mind.”
P: That’s not at all terrifying. Also, yes they really should have worked on some Soulcasting!
A: They should have. Shallan is just way, way too good at avoidance. Oh, and this puts to rest (if it wasn’t resting already) the idea that Shallan went physically into the Cognitive realm when she Soulcast earlier. She’s not actually capable of doing that. The danger is in letting her mind go too far in.
Jasnah waved her hand toward the approaching Fused—and stone formed from air, completely encasing them.
It was brilliant. Any who saw it in only the Physical Realm would be impressed, but Radiant saw so much more. Jasnah’s absolute command and confidence. The Stormlight rushing to do her will. The air itself responding as if to the voice of God himself.
P: I’ll say it again… Jasnah is beyond badass.
“The portal has to be opened,” Renarin said.
“Your Highness…” Teshav said. “You can’t fight them all.”
“There’s nobody else.” He turned to go.
Shockingly, nobody called for him to stop. …
… It felt wonderful and terrifying at once to know that nobody did that today.
P: I can imagine how conflicted Renarin must feel here; on the one hand, he’s glad that nobody is telling him not to do what he’s doing, but on the other hand, he’s terrified that nobody is telling him not to do what he’s doing!
One of his fits struck him. … Stained-glass pictures, panel after panel.
These had always been right. Until today—until they had proclaimed that Jasnah Kholin’s love would fail.
P: This was such a cool scene. Especially when Renarin began to smile because of what he saw.
A: That was priceless. On a first read, you just have no idea what to expect from it. What would make him smile in a moment like that?
Light exploded from the Oathgate platform in a wave. The Fused cried out in a strange tongue, zipping into the air. A luminous wall expanded from the Oathgate platform in a ring, trailing a glowing afterimage.
It faded to reveal an entire division of Alethi troops in Kholin blue standing upon the Oathgate platform.
Then, like a Herald from lore, a man rose into the air above them. Glowing white with Stormlight, the bearded man carried a long silver Shardspear with a strange crossguard shape behind the tip.
Teft.
Knight Radiant.
P: Just… WOW.
A: Yep. Nothing else to say.
Meaningful Motivations
He hadn’t changed in one giant leap, but across a million little steps.
The most important always being the next, he thought as he drifted in the red mist.
P: The next step… this sentiment really keeps me going sometimes. Journey before destination, friends.
A Scrupulous Study of Spren
Five. Six.
He could hear stone grinding just behind.
He fell to his knees.
Seven.
Maya! he thought, truly desperate. Please.
Blessedly, as he raised his hands, the Blade materialized.
A: What a moment! This is one of my favorite scenes ever. Maya didn’t need to wait. Syl explained the ten heartbeats once as “syncing a heartbeat to their essence.” I choose to interpret this as Maya already being in sync with Adolin, to some degree, so that this time she didn’t need all ten.
P: I love this scene, too. He needs her and she appears for him. I definitely think it shows that they are in sync, that Adolin has reached her, and that she responds to him. It’s one of the most exciting developments in a really exciting book.
A: However you interpret it, she came sooner when he needed her. And she’s not done:
As he lay there in agony, he felt something—a faint panic on the wind. He forced himself to roll to the side, and a Fused swept past, its lance barely missing him.
A: There’s talk about the deadeyes being “slaves” or “tools,” but Maya seems to care that Adolin survives this shindig. I wonder; in the 1500 years or so since the Recreance, has any Shardblade cared about it’s wielder before?
P: She definitely cares about him, as we see when she attacked the Fused in Shadesmar. The fact that he can sense this from her now is really telling, I think. She’s waking, she is!
Buy the Book
The Unspoken Name
As Hrdalm stepped toward the fight, Adolin took the man by the arm, then lifted Maya.
Go with him for now, Maya, Adolin thought.
He almost wished she’d object, but the vague sensation he received was a resigned agreement.
A: Aww. Giving a Blade to a Plate-wearer does make sense when fighting a thunderclast, and I’m pretty impressed that she agreed to go.
Over to Kaladin and Syl:
The highprince battered against the Sylshield with two Shardblades. She, in turn, grew a latticework on the outside—with parts sticking out like the tines of a trident.
“What are you doing?” Kaladin asked.
Improvising.
P: I love that Syl took the initiative to change her form. It worked, too.
Arresting Artwork
A: I’m including the map again, for reference. Some of us like to place these things visually.
Wow. Okay, we made it through the ginormous chapter, with our sanity mostly intact. Now let’s take it to the comments, for your reactions and anything we missed. My thanks again to Paige for stepping up at the last minute, and to Lyndsey for putting priority on the needs of others in a time of crisis.
Next week, we’ll take up Chapter 121, which is about half the length of the one we just finished… so, also huge. (Seriously, we discovered early on that doing more than about 15 pages was usually too much in one week, so now you know the secret to how and when we felt we could combine chapters. Chapter 120 was 45 pages, and 121 is 21 pages. Um… okay, then.) See you in the comments!
Alice is hanging in there, doing the social distancing and hand-washing thing. She actually wore a mask to do the grocery shopping the other day. It was weird. She may need to create cosplay masks if this keeps up. As an introvert, she’s well trained for this, though.
Paige resides in New Mexico, of course, and writes in an attempt to stay sane. No, really. Imagine if she didn’t write. Yeesh. She’s a champ at the in-person social distancing but is bereft at the postponement of the MLB season. Links to her available works are provided in her profile.
The Renarin bit at the beginning reminds me of the bit from Fullmetal Alchemist where (bad guy) summons a bunch of rocks to crush the guy he’s fighting. We think it’s over, and then the rocks turn into a door and a couple steps and he walks out like nothing happened.
And Sanderson being a skilled craftsman, it’s also foreshadowing, meant to remind us of them so the impact when we see them later is greater.
Have I mentioned at any time that this whole book is full of “variations on a theme”?
Is this going to be Lift and Dalinar’s schtick, with Dalinar as the straight man? It happened when she sneaked into his vision, it happened when she appeared on the battlefield, and now again.
Glys said from within Renarin. Aluminum foil hat intensifying.
Szeth teaching Lift is the scene I’m most looking forward to in the next book.
Wow that Bad ass GIF is perfectly Shallan and Jasnah aside from their scandalous uncovered safe hands.
“Teft. Knight Radiant.”
Yeah. Wow.
I love Adolin fighting the Thunderclast, definitely one of my favorite scenes in all three books.
This week, Paige’s comment on struggling to understand why Adolin would, in the absence of a medically validated mental illness, self-depreciate himself given how capable he was hit home. I feel compelled to state not being afflicted from depression nor any other mental illness absolutely does not bar people from experiencing struggles nor does it mean their inner-self is spot perfect. Individuals can have difficulty to deal hardships without being able to blame it on one label or the other. One does not need to have the “depression” stamp on his forehead to have doubts about his own abilities nor to think they aren’t enough. People can do this to themselves without having the excuse of a clinically approved disease.
In other words, mental illnesses are not the only vehicle through which hardships can be portrayed. Yes, it is Brandon’s favorite one, but it isn’t, and by far, the sole manner to introduce hardships in a character nor to depict self-deprecating issues.
In Adolin’s case, I find it is easy to figure out why he behaves this way. He’s a people pleaser’s which means his sense of self-esteem is tied into how others are perceiving him. In other words, if others state he is worthy, he might believe he is, but if they express doubts on his worth, he will bash himself for failing. His natural standards are very high and he constantly tries to prove himself: no victory is ever enough since there will always be a greater one to achieve, far ahead. In the case of the narrative, he has the Radiants constantly reminding him how he isn’t one himself and since he has those self-esteem issues, he does not believe he can achieve the same. He does not believe he is “good enough” because nothing he ever does is ever considered “good enough”. At least not by him, an issue which was likely exacerbated by Dalinar never giving him positive feedback as a child and rejecting him as a teenager.
The real-life equivalent would be this kid who strives to be the very best at school, who bashes on himself for having a grade which is slightly below his internal very high standards. Say, the kid who cries silently in the basement, away from external eyes, because he got 98% instead of the 100% he was aiming for. Why would anyone think less of themselves after receiving such an impressive, stellar grade? Because that kid has some serious self-esteem issues and believes he needs to reach unattainable expectations to be deemed worthy and yes, that’s a real issue because that kid, that was me. Once.
Hence, Adolin believing his skill levels are insufficient and bashing himself for his inefficiency, even if from an external eye he seems to be excellent, is totally realistic and a real-depiction of how self-esteem issues can express themselves into more outward individuals who tend to look-up to others.
I find it incredibly relating and it usually saddens me the same readership that so readily praises Brandon for his realistic depiction of mental illnesses often skips on what I believe is very realistic depiction of how low self-esteem can express itself in people, how low self-esteem does not always correlate with “shy”, “physically weak” or “introverted”, how very capable people can have issues with it.
For me, this portrayal hit home.
On Adolin/Renarin: I love the brother reversal we saw here and I really want to read what it will do to Adolin’s already fragile self-esteem.
On responsibility: Who knows how Moash or Amaram might have turned out had they have a family as loving, supporting, forgiving as Dalinar’s, Cultivation’s gifts and a full decade? I am always surprised no one ever ask the question… After all, how long did it take for Dalinar to reach the moment where he could finally take ownership of his actions? How long did he get? How many decades? How many times did he reject responsibility before he got to finally accept it? How many?
On Maya: I love the Maya comes in less than 10 seconds moment. So amazing, but I felt for Adolin when he expected Maya to object over being given to Hdrlm only to realize that no, she doesn’t, not really. I think there was a small part of him who expected… more?
“Until today—until they had proclaimed that Jasnah Kholin’s love would fail.” – Something about the way this is written is one of the most powerful sentences in the chapter for me, and in a way surpasses all of her badassed-ness displayed elsewhere.
@5 – oh man, your real life example was definitely me in school!
Gaval the Standby Shardplate Guy must be the same Gaval that Kaladin promoted at the end of TWoK. I loved that scene. Kaladin is a darkeyed bridgman slave from a totally different army, but yes, Gaval, you are promoted. It is nice to see these little connections between the books.
@6: I am having a hard time figuring out Soulcasting– it is frankly confusing me so that saps my enjoyment out of Jasnah’s power displays. However, I do agree with you on that line from Renarin. It is impactful. I like Jasnah, even if I am not liking Soulcasting.
@6: And me too… I was 16. the older I got, the worst the problem became. It reached its ultimate denouement when I was… 23 years old. Adolin’s age.
This is why I have zero issues picturing how Adolin can self-depreciate himself so badly, in the absence of a valid mental illness, despite being so competent. Competence does not equate to self-confidence. The reverse is also true.
I do love the way so many of the characters fail. Shallan, losing her mind to the Cognitive Realm. Kaladin, falling to the very Blade he gave up and the lighteyes who killed his men to steal it. Even Dalinar, weeping as he faces the Thrill one final time.
UsualIy a climax is when the failures of the heroes give way to successes, but in Oathbringer these failures are not resolved by the heroes themselves, but by those who give them the help they need. Jasnah rescuing Shallan, Rock rescuing Kaladin, Lift rescuing Dalinar. It brings up one of the more powerful themes of Oathbringer: in our weakness we are strong together.
Also, Alice and Paige (and Lindsey doing important work elsewhere), thank you so much for this wonderful reread. I recently got all caught up with ya’ll and am excited to be finishing it out with you!
P: One of my pet peeves, this… the unwavering faith in Taravangian. Bah.
To be fair, Malata is a Radiant. They might not have realized- or internalized- that a KR could, in some circumstances, be on the other side.
Szeth of the Skybreakers had, fortunately, trained with all ten Surges.
A: How cool is that? There’s so much we don’t know about the Shin and the Stone Shamans yet, but this is a fascinating data point: Some people, and we don’t know who or how many, train with all the Honorblades they hold. Given that (as far as we know) they still hold all the Honorblades except Nale’s and Taln’s, that covers all ten Surges. Hopefully, we’ll learn a lot more about this in book five.
Interesting to think about… the one combo he didn’t train in is the one he has now.
@10 – But Szeth did train in those surges. Windrunner blade for Gravitation and Dustbringer blade for Division.
Right, but not as a combo. He wouldn’t have had experience with combining the use of Division and Gravitation. Unless his training included dual-wielding Blades, I guess.
@tjamesmanae:
It might be worth mentioning that Oathbringer is the middle book of a pentology. There can’t be too many final resolutions of anything.
One of the rare moments when I relate to Jasnah despite her supreme badassery. I don’t want someone to be my responsibility, but I can’t resist lecturing about my subject of passion — aquatic and marine biology and ecology — to anyone at every opportunity. (Thus I favor working at museums, aquariums, etc. over wanting to be a teacher or parent.) Maaaaybe I wouldn’t do so in the middle of an actual battle, even if it was relevant at that moment, but I’ve never tested this.
I noted the bit where people were unable to move without “squishing fearspren,” given that only the tips of the sprens’ antennae would be squished. At least I think so. I still don’t fully understand how spren work, though they’re more interesting to me than anything else in all of the Cosmere’s magic systems.
I generally have not had any problems with how Brandon wrote Adolin so far in the series (my biggest issue is that I do not like how they resolved the Adolin killed Sadeas sub plot – I will discuss that when we get to the scene where Adolin tells Dalinar that he killed Sadeas). However, I am not a fan of how Adolin almost single handily tried to fight the Thunderclast. Until Renarin comes and tells Adolin to stop fighting and he gives his Mayablade to Hrdalm to help fight Renarin fight the Thunderclast. Adolin’s actions strike me as the old action movie where the hero is in a hail of bullets, yet does not get hit and still kills all the bad guys against overwhelming odds. It seams like in real life the hero would have been hit. I think movies like the remake of the Magnificent Seven or saving Private Ryan are more realistic. Some of the under-maned band of heroes wind up dying in the final battle.
I am curious as to what other readers/commentators think on how Adolin is portrayed in this fight, especially for those readers/commentators who generally are fans of Adolin. Sorry to pick on you, Gepeto, but I am curious as to what your thoughts are on this “superman” Adolin fight. In the past, you have mentioned you enjoy reading Adolin’s character and I believe you have said he is one of your favorites in this series.
Page. IMO, Dalinar being friendly with the Thrill works. For years, Dalinar willing accepted the Thrill. He probably (not sure if there is a scene in one of the flashbacks that he referred to the Thrill as his friend) considered the Thrill a friend – or at least a valuable colleague. For me, it is the same if you were friends with somebody for years but you ignored/were blind to what a bad person this friend was. Eventually, you realize that your friend is a bad person. If you have to confront this one-time friend after you have your epiphany, then you (or at least I would) would be civil; perhaps cold – but still civil. At least that is how I viewed the scene.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@14: Honestly, a marine biologist with an interest in ecology sounds like an amazing ground basis for a fantasy character active outside the battlefields! This is another reason why I dislike Jasnah suddenly becoming a badass fighter… Not all protagonists need to be “badass” on the battlefield. It is OK for some to be… inside people.
@15: This has been commented before, but I am also unsatisfied with how Brandon chose to handle the murder of Sadeas. I agree this is a discussion to be saved for when it becomes relevant again.
I personally find Adolin trying to take down the Thunderclast, all by himself, was the expression of one of his major character flaws, the one readers tend to overlook because “badass” tends to make people not look too closely. In other words, Adolin is impulsive, hotheaded, and he will try to fight down foes he simply cannot best out of a need to prove himself. Or maybe he is internally suicidal. Now, this is one very far-fetched though (and I don’t really believe this is the case), but when Adolin stands, on his broken leg, bloody and wounded, with Maya in his hands, still trying to stop the Thunderclast… well… he had to know he wouldn’t succeed. He had to know the creature would kill him. He is a trained soldier, he knows when a battle is lost.
Those who read the WoT will remember why Asmodean unwillingly chose to toss his beans inside Rand’s bag: he once saw a man hanging over a cliff gripping a tuff of grass. He had to know it would give up. He had to know he was a lost cause and yet, he hung on with all the strength he could muster. Adolin here made me think of Asmodean with one exception… He didn’t have to make this one last stand. The Thunderclast had seemed willing to leave him in the rumbles, but the moment he chooses to do so, well, he had to know he would fail. Hence it raises the question, why did he do it? For the mere hope of slowing the creature for a few additional minutes? Really?
Hence, I don’t think Adolin was portrayed as superman here, I felt he was portrayed as someone who was willing to give up his life in a do or die fight in order to score points on an imaginary scoreboard. He genuinely wants to be the one to stop the Thunderclast or worst he internally believes he is the better placed to do so despite the gruesome evidence he is not. I keep on thinking how Adolin exhibiting this behavior has been overlooked by the readership. He also does the same in WoR: he tries to take on Szeth, after he sends Dalinar to the sky. Again, he had to know he would fail and die. Still, he does it.
Those details are exactly what prevents me from reading Adolin as an overdone action hero. Well, I agree the scene does have its action hero moments… For instance, Adolin standing on his broken leg was probably overdone and unrealistic. The fact he doesn’t readily go into physical shock over the wounds he received was also, probably, not super realistic, but I still did not think of Adolin as an invulnerable action figure. I thought of him as a physically vulnerable young man who willingly believes his life is worth wasting in order to stop the Thunderclast. As a reader who likes Adolin, I wonder why that is. What is it which makes Adolin take his last stand in battles he knows he cannot win for dubious uncertain results?
As it was the case with Szeth, there was little purpose to Adolin still trying to engage the creature after he dropped in the rumbles. There was little he could still do, in his state, just as he knew there was nothing he could do to stop Szeth in WoR. I find his scenes strongly differ from Kaladin’s similar scenes because whenever Kaladin endangers his life, he does it to protect someone living, someone tangible. He does it with a chance of success… and even when he doesn’t, he has someone very real who needs his protection. Adolin does not have those reasons. Worst, if Adolin has had his men with him, he would have retreated, he would not have unnecessarily endangered them, but himself?
I find this might be one of the overlooked elements inside the character. I think many readers get distracted by the “badassery” of the scene and do not look beyond it nor ask what does Adolin standing bloody against the Thunderclast tells us about his character. Therefore, outside of being an amazing cinematic scene, as a fan of Adolin’s character, I wonder what the underlining message is and what Brandon meant for us to read in the scene.
I loved the moment with Rock saving Kaladin. It was a wonderful mix of badassery and poignance, because we knew how much it must have cost Rock to do that. It reminded me of a line from one of my favorite Star Trek episodes: “You did something that injured you and saved me. I will not forget it.” I’m sure Kaladin won’t forget either!
I don’t remember if it was said in this chapter, but it’s definitely mentioned somewhere that a person without Shardplate shouldn’t have been able to draw the Shardbow. Any theories on what this means for Rock? Did he become a full Radiant in that moment, and was able to draw the bow because of the power-up that seems to accompany swearing additional Oaths?
Paige. I agree. Jasnah is the MVP of the Battle of Thaylen Field.
I never understood why Teft was described as glowing white. I had thought I read that Windrunners glow blue when they spill out Stormlight. Like Kaladin does.
Paige. What is your favorite baseball team?
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
I think all of Adolin’s fighting with the Thunderclasts just screamed Edgedancer. He was sliding in and out of the “punches” between him and the Thunderclast. I don’t see his almost, final stand, as being a sign of trying to prove himself. He is a soldier. He knew he was possibly fatally injured. This is when you give yourself up to allow the next fighter every second you can give him. As a brother he did as he always had, he would fight with and for Renerin regardless of the cost, until Renerin told him he needed to stand down. I expect that did hit a little hard.
Jasnah is Renerin’s heart mother. I wonder if he ends up at her side “protecting” and advising the Queen.
Isn’t Stormlight always white? It’s the eyes that change to the color associated with the Order.
@Gepeto:
So, Navani?
Yes, in this book she does participate in a brief fight, but she doesn’t use badass combat skills. She takes advantage of the Vorin assumption that women can’t fight, and violates their taboo on women using their left hands, to pull a bit of brand-new technology out and tase three mooks. And, like her nephew, as soon as the fight is over her wound is forgotten.
Speculation: if Renarin would just stop healing him for a few days, would Adolin now heal anomalously fast, the way both Dalinar and Kaladin did before taking the Oaths? Is this, if someone (probably Jasnah or Navani) thought of it, a way to test people for proto-radiancy?
The Fight scene between Adolin and the Thunderclast didn’t bother me. He generally takes the lead in dangerous battle situations, though usually with plate (and he did miss his plate). It’s what he was trained for. He’s the son of the Blackthorn. Adolin is an excellent duelist with better reflexes than the Thunderclast. Even so, I don’t think he believed he would take it out on his own. Like the chasm fiend I think he intended to harry it and wear it down until it killed him or until help arrived.
Carl, Yes, I kept hoping for a little glow. Everyone wants a scene between Lift and their favorite character. I want a scene where Adolin asks to speak with Lift and Windle. :)
@19: I do not agree. Adolin fighting the Thunderclast, all by himself, was foolish, idiotic, foolhardy, impulsive and would have been a completely useless waste of his life had Renarin not gotten there in time. In other words, Adolin jumped in front of the creature without having a proper plan to defeat nor proper background merely thinking because HE had a Blade, he should be the one to hack it down. He completely disregards all the previous attempts done to slow the creature down, naively thinking he will single-handily prevail where the Thaylenah soldiers failed.
Hence, I do not find his decision was solid military thinking nor choosing to stand into his death was the right choice since the additional second he would have lasted could have been crucial. Wasting your life waiting for the back-up you have no idea will actually arrive since you never sent for it is not the right military choice, especially not when you are supposed to be one of the leaders of your faction.
So No. Had Adolin actually acted like the capable soldier/military leader he is supposed to be, he would have called for back-up, he would have sent a runner up to find a Radiant, he would have given Maya to Hrdlm early on because a full Shardbearer had more chance of succeeding than two half ones… He would have organized and lead the effort to stop the Thunderclast, but he would not have taken upon himself to put his own body in front of it to slow it.
I fail to see how self-sacrificing his life, depriving his people of his military capacities actually was the best of decisions nor the rightful one. Adolin’s last heroic stance had no further value: he would have gotten himself killed and in the absence of a Radiant, the Thunderclast would have smashed the Oathgate. This implies this only sound military decision Adolin could have taken was to ask for back-up the moment he got there which he didn’t.
@21: Too ingrained with the fighting? Navani is a warrior’s wife… but her character could evolve towards this archetype though I will argue she needs considerably more page time to achieve it. Navani has always been one character I felt lacked fleshing out.
On Speculation: I don’t think whichever bond Adolin has with Maya allows him to draw in stormlight nor use surgebinding. In the current scene, we saw Adolin get pretty seriously mashed up and, based on what we saw, none of his wounds stared healing themselves even if slowly. I think the only reason Adolin, after the battle appears “better” is more tied to him actually hiding his own wounds more than him having healed.
My Speculation: Adolin will not get full Radiant powers until he reaches the fifth oath which may not happen until the back five. I think he will get sporadic access to stormllight and surges upon swearing at least one oath. I think his “healing” will never be strong and his surgebinding erratic due to Maya being half-dead. In other words, up until she returns to full sentience, Adolin will not get the same benefits other Radiants, even Radiants still at the first oath, usually gets.
@22: I think a lot of readers want to read an Adolin/Lift scene, but Lift being back in the interludes for RoW does not bode well for the two characters to meet.
It seems to me that Adolin has been displaying the Ideals of different orders:
– Windrunners: in WoKs, he stands up for that prostitute in Sadeas’ Warcamp, protecting those who cannot protect themselves
– Edgedance: we see this more than any others, where he remembers those who no one else does. Eg. the prostitute as above, the child earlier in the Battle of Thaylen Field, etc.
And now, he adds the Stonewards to this list, as he picks a battle he cannot win despite the odds. We read previously about how Stonewards are known for that particular trait – the biggest difference is they are also known to win said battles, even if they might die in the process (see Taln in WoK prologue).
It makes me wonder if he will display ideals of any other orders in the future, and what this will mean for his character development
@24: This is true, but I think some orders’ oaths do overlap.
For instance, while Adolin is protective of his men, he never takes it as far as Kaladin does. He doesn’t spend his every waking moment trying to think on how he could protect his men in battle, he doesn’t take them away from the battlefield and he will make military decisions that will get people killed.
It is also true he makes a “last stand” in this scene which is in line with our knowledge of the Stonewards oaths, but he does not do it when leading a larger scaled battle involving other people. In other words, Adolin only makes the last stance when the sole casualty is himself. He never does it when others’ lives are on the line, only his which is why I have noted it probably told us something about his character.
What Adolin did do, in a repetitive manner, is listen to others and genuinely act rashly based on the love he has for his family members. This expresses itself in more than one manner and in more than one scenario.
This is why I think Edgedancer fits better, but I agree the Windrunners/Stonewards might overlap with the order. Another example, Kaladin does the “last stand” against Moash to save Elhokar. Kaladin might be Windrunner, but we have seen him being willing to give up his life to fight for someone else which does overlap with the Stonewards first ideal.
I have to admit, I’ve really been warming to the idea of Adolin as an Edgedancer (if he becomes a Radiant at all, as opposed to something different, or just continuing on as a badass normal).
@25 – I think the Radiants take the Ideals to the extreme – they are “Ideals” after all. So while it is more reasonable to expect, say a Stoneward, to be leading soldiers in an epic last stand, Adolin may serve to show what a more….modest take on the ideals could entail. I don’t have a theory on the matter, but it something interesting I picked up on – that Adolin could be presenting the Ideals of the Radiants in a much different manner. How this could affect his development is interesting to speculate on, to me.
@Gepeto, 23: Adolin wasn’t expecting to defeat the thunderclast (though he would have liked to, I’m sure). He literally wanted to slow it down long enough for someone to come through the Oathgate. He didn’t know about the betrayal at Urithuru, he expected that if he could buy precious minutes, Renarin or someone would bring an army through to assist the Thaylen. He was risking his life, but not for no reason. He did, in fact, slow the thing down quite a lot, with Hrdalm’s help.
The Radiant orders themselves overlap, certainly. We’ve seen (as I have mentioned in the past) that the Bondsmiths and Windrunners both have the odd ability to speak directly to the Stormfather no matter where on Roshar they are–Lopen does it in a few chapters, and Kaladin has done it several times.
Hmm … why does the Stormfather personally accept oaths from Windrunners and Bondmiths, but not (as far as we have seen) the other orders? Certainly he didn’t accept Lift’s Third Oath, or any of Shallan’s Truths, or Szeth’s Second or Third Oaths.
BTW, a bit of linguistic stuff I noticed that amused me … “thunderclast”? “Clast” is Greek for … shard. I’m pretty sure it means nothing, but it did amuse me.
@27: I would not expect all Radiants to be as extreme as Kaladin: I always took him as an extreme case of everything. This being said, I definitely do not expect Adolin to be modest about his ideals: after all, he kills a man out of love for his father. He is rash, foolhardy, and impulsive in his desire to save everyone around him, so that’s definitely the opposite of what modest behavior.
@28: Adolin definitely expected to be able to defeat the Thunderclast, at first, a behavior Brandon himself noted as foolhardy and impulsive. The reason he goes after the beast is linked to his discomfort at needing to kill regular soldiers combined with the desire to put his Blade to use against a “bigger foe”. The fact he shouldn’t be the one fighting the bigger foe never registered in his mind.
Adolin definitely had a lack of judgment when he jumped, alone, in front of a 50-foot monster expecting not only to beat it but not being killed by it. When he takes his first hit, he is surprised and chastised himself for having forgotten he was not wearing his Plate. Back during the Kholinar attack, Adolin mentally warns Ehlokar to be careful in the fight and not to forget he is not wearing his Plate, but against the Thunderclast, Adolin is the one who forgets and acts rashly still thinking he cannot be hit.
Once he is wounded and unable to fight, he still tries to fight. This is exactly what I am criticizing here (I am not criticizing the narrative, I am criticizing Adolin’s decision), it was foolish, stupid, and a complete waste of his life. There was nothing he could still do to slow the creature down and even before, it was foolish to waste his life trying to single-handily defeat a monster he was never going to be able to best.
Honestly, I do think the scene would have been read completely differently had the character not been Adolin, but Kaladin, Dalinar or worst Renarin. I think the fact it was Adolin who was willing to sacrifice his life is literally under-looked but had it been one of the broken Radiants, it would have been underlined as such a tragic moment where the character thinks his life is not worth enough to self-preserve it in front of a battle he cannot win. I think Adolin’s life has been noted as expendable since WoK and, as a result, he gets praised for needlessly giving it away whereas when Kaladin does the same (WoR against Moash), it is marked as a very tragic moment.
Hence, my point is when Adolin pulls himself on his feet out of the rumble, summons Maya, and holds her in stonestance, he knows he will die. He knows he is sacrificing his life. He knows he can no longer either stop nor delay the Thunderclast. He knows his last attempt is futile and useless, but he does it anyway.
Adolin willingly chooses to die on this battleground standing strong against a creature he knows he cannot beat.
I think Moash’s situation is a little more complex than “blaming other people for everything bad that happens to him.” First off, he isn’t to blame for the things that happened in his backstory, and the idea that he is feels too much like victim-blaming for me. Secondly, he does start off feeling guilty and blaming himself for betraying Kaladin and Bridge Four; the problem is that he doesn’t choose to accept accountability or change his course. And again, after he’s captured, he punishes himself when he feels guilty, but he doesn’t grapple with whst he’s done in any way that would lead him to change his course. And that’s what leaves him vulnerable to the later temptation to say “fine, I’m an awful person, but so is everyone else.”
Which is a quite distinct character arc from Amaram.
I am with KatherineMW @30 on Moash. His family suffered death because of injustice and corruption. The caste system leaves him few options for finding justice. He is rightfully angry about that. That he is willing to destroy anything good around him in pursuit of revenge and that he won’t change course as his path goes ever downward is the tragedy of it.
Alice, Lindsey, Paige:
Brandon’s page shows that Draft 3.0 is done. Congratulations!
I’m worried that Shallan won’t face the stuff she has to face until those she loves (Adolin, her brothers, maybe others) have died. By then it won’t be too late for Roshar, but it’ll be too late for some of our favourite characters, and I’ll probably never forgive her for that, if it happens.
Has Shallan ever tried to think of it as: “her mother was tied up with irreputable people and was possibly insane, and tried to kill her – and her father, although it was out of trying to protect her, went insane and began hurting the people she loved in order to hurt her?” So even though she was responsible for killing her parents, it wasn’t hurt fault, since it was self defence and they pushed her to do it. Would that be correct? Or would that put her into Odium/Moash/Amaram territory? Could thinking of it that way make it easier to accept what she did?
@30: I agree about Moash. He did suffer a great injustice and was deprived of the possibility of seeing the real culprit punished. It caused him great anger. It had lost all faith in the actual system which is why it isn’t surprising he would toss his beans into the next best thing he meets.
What I find more surprising is how hated Moash is for killing Elhokar or, on the reverse, how loved Elhokar was… Sure, Kaladin has an abnormal amount of sympathy for a man he should have heavily disliked, but the fact remains Elhokar was a poor king, a temperamental juvenile leader who did get Moash’s grand-parents killed out of laziness. If I were Moash, hearing a spren had chosen him, HIM, would have sent me in a rage! I would have raged how the so-called Radiants are nothing else but murderers and are part of the problem.
In fact, I am not sure this will not become a problem in future books… How can a man such as Moash have faith in the Radiants and they “new world” when they chose and welcome Elhokar among their ranks? He does not deserve it. A few minutes saying he wants to do better is supposed to make him deserving? I get it, the spend are not seeing it under those eyes, but the people might. I certainly do and I bet Moash does as well.
Hence, I have a lot of sympathy for Moash. I can definitely get why some people wouldn’t want to follow the likes of Dalinar, Szeth, and the Kholin family.
@31: How can he change path? He is stuck with the Fused. He no longer has any choices.
@33: Oh, one of my personal theories is Shallan will not come clean until her lies start to have repercussions on Adolin. I think it is only when all the lies she spun and the truths she refused to say will start to endanger him that she will finally be honest. I don’t think she will tell anyone anything on her own volition.
Late to the party, but here are some observations:
I am not entirely sure how Renarin could have healed in smushed condition for long enough to cut through thunderclast’s palm enough to allow his body in it’s normal shape to properly fit. Particularly since just piercing the palm or even cutting in one direction shouldn’t have been enough. A bit of fuzziness here, IMHO. Also, I suspect that such a powerful healing is something that was only possible because he was supercharged with stormlight by Dalinar’s parpendicularity and that it wouldn’t have worked under normal circumstances. Thunderclasts had managed to kill fully powered Heralds in the past, after all.
I kinda understand Adolin’s self-deprecation – he is one of the best individual fighters this world likely has, and suddenly he gets upstaged by the Radiants in his area of expertise and comes across as really vulnerable. I mean, he always sorta was when not wearing plate, but he didn’t seem to entirely realize that, as having a shadblade gave him a somewhat overblown sense of security. I mean, an enemy of Kholins still could have fatally shot him from behind, yet Adolin never really felt that he truly needed bodyguards. But during the latter parts of OB his fragility as an unpowered human got extenisvely demonstrated to him. I do think that he is somewhat wrong – he just needs to figure out tactics that would work against these new dangers and learn to work as part of the team more than he needed to until now. And he makes a very good start on this here.
I also don’t think that the Radiants fully feel the pain when they get wounds that would have been fatal to normals, because they heal before their bodies can proceed from the shock phase (where even iRL people aren’t/aren’t wholly aware of the hurt) to the pain phase.
Interesting, that the Fused fear entering the Thrill mist – would it have overpowered and driven them crazy if they did? As a corollary, the Thaylens don’t seem to be affected by the Thrill either, even though it is located very close to them. So, can Odium make Nergaoul discriminate or no?
An interesting Fused type with the speed-growth carapace. Is it specialized Progression?
I have already mentioned that I find Kaladin’s fight with Amaram silly and underwhelming, but I don’t find him fumbling with surges particularly scary at all – it does hint at how terrifying somebody bonded to Yelig-nar could be if they managed to control it long enough to become proficient with it’s surges, which I am sure that Vyre or maybe even Nale are going to demonstrate eventually. But between the throes of transformation and being a complete novice at surge-binding, Amaram is more annoying than truly dangerous here. If Kaladin didn’t have to fend off multiple Fused from Dalinar, he would have dealt with Amaram easily. In fact, I don’t understand why his crytsal heart was only cracked when hit by the Syl-spear, when shards are supposed to go through stones like they are nothing. I loved Rock saving Kaladin, but the circumstances felt very contrived and B-movie-reminiscent to me.
So, how did Renarin manage to banish the soul animating the thunderclast? And how was it normally done? I can’t believe that they always needed a Truthwatcher for that, leave alone the fact that Glys’ corruption may have played in how he did it, too.
Dalinar communing with the Thrill, getting a deep understanding of it’s nature and finally trapping it was a terrific scene! And I have to return to the fact that Nergaoul is red – i.e. it was clearly corrupted from something else and the fact that it is so clearly non-hateful, despite it’s destructiveness, may play into it. I used to have a theory that it was a splinter of Dominion, given the feelings that it provokes, but IIRC there are WoBs that preclude this.
Concerning Rock – I don’t think that he actually broke any cultural norms by taking up arms – it was heavily hinted that he is now the nuatoma of his peak, and while the eldest Horneater sons normally don’t fight, I don’t think that this applies to nuatomas. After all, Rock claimed that the _nuatomas_ were the ones who came to challenge the shardbearers to duels for the shards, that it was his nuatoma who wanted to fight Sadeas for his shardplate… So, really this moment is where Rock can no longer continue to pretend that he is just a cook and lie to himself and other bridgemen.
Oh, and another curious thing – it was, apparently, OK for his wife to be an archer and to fight against the Fused that attacked her caravan. I am really curious about the place of women in the Horneater culture…
Gepeto:
I disagree that Adolin was foolish and impulsive to tackle the thunderclast. He was the only person there both with battle experience and with the experience fighting huge creatures, not to mention that he is one of the best swordsmen on Roshar. It made sense to work with Hrdalm to try to bring the thunderclast down. They couldn’t have known that various tactics they tried wouldn’t work. The attempted last stand was yes, impulsive and self-destructive, but not anything that preceded it, IMHO. It also led to closer connection with Mayalaran that was beautiful and wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
KatherineMW@30, Nightheron @31:
I don’t wholly agree with you about Moash. Judging by the legal options that Lirin exploited to keep the stolen spheres, it seems to me that Moash, as a man of the same social standing, did have an option to seek redress through the system, which he chose not to explore. In fact, he didn’t even bother to find out the details of the case, to learn about Roshone, etc.
Ehlokar may have been the negligent judge who ordered the arrest and kept his grandparents incarcerated for a couple of months (which can easily happen in certain first world countries iRL, BTW), but Roshone was the one who framed them, the actual culprit.
Likewise, we don’t know under what circumstances Moash ended up in the bridgecrews. He was not a slave.
Finally, his behavior towards the old caravaneer in Revolar was abominable and handily explains why nobody except his family and Kaladin/bridge 4 had ever liked and accepted him.
@35: On Adolin being foolish and foolhardy, Brandon actually commented on this:
When Adolin tackled the Thunderclast, all by himself, the author’s intent was to portray a foolhardy impulsive behavior, it wasn’t to portray the rational thinking of a military-trained soldier. I find it somewhat surprising Adolin is seen as making sound decisions here when he almost got himself killed, he failed to work in a team, and he proved he was out there to single-handily defeat the creature.
So I disagree Adolin proved he was adaptable and has started to installed changes in his approach. He foolishly jumped in front of the monster, he completely underestimated the danger he was putting himself into, he didn’t send for back-up and he tried to make a needless heroic last-stand.
In my opinion, Adolin still has crumbs to eat before he really becomes a military leader since for one glimpse of strategy, he pulls out a stunt as he did here.
This being said, I absolutely love the scene and the interaction between Adolin and Maya. I am absolutely not criticizing it, I love this sequence. I, however, disagree it pictures Adolin as a rational, thoughtful, sound military mind willing to make a worth-while sacrifice to secure a more important victory on his side: I read an impulsive young man in need of worth who decided to go against the strongest foe out of trying to prove he was still a capable asset to his team. I was a great scene, but it does show Adolin under his real light: he is an impulsive firecracker who will needlessly risk himself, who will fail to assess danger properly.
On Moash: Despite everything I might have said, I agree with you on Moash’s behavior with the caravan leader. This must be the one really despicable thing he did. I can forgive him for Elhokar, I don’t care about Jezrien, a crazy thousand years old man, but his old caravan leader? No. Just no.
@Gepeto:
No, but how about “a lifetime”? He was very bad as a king, but he was always sincerely trying.
I am not on the “hate Moash forever, feed him to Nightblood” team. He’s very clearly meant to be the antihero here, not the villain. In fact, as I have written, he’s anti-Kaladin in several ways. This makes me think that, as Kaladin is super-Honor-y, maybe Moash is a component of Cultivation’s very long-term master plan.
Just like Venli had no choices, once a voidspren occupied her gemheart and was literally living inside her body?
@Isilel
Because there was one of the Unmade living in it?
We saw a horde of Radiants do it in Dalinar’s vision. They beat on it until it was in fragments. Apparently the thunderclast-spirit (whatever the heck they are) can’t just occupy a different lump of stone immediately once banished.
KatherineMW @30, nightheron @31 Re: Moash – Obviously there are other people at fault in many of the things that happened to him and his family. However: he freely says he decided that he was just not cut out to be a silversmith, so he took off and joined the caravans as a guard. It was much more to his liking. I’m sure it was, and he was probably a better guard than a silversmith, especially with that attitude. What gripes me about his backstory issues is that he never acknowledges a single time that if he had decided to find work locally, he would have been nearby when Roshone started the trouble. If he hadn’t gone all wanderlust-y, and had been willing to stay closer to his aging grandparents, they’d have had an advocate. Instead, he was off with the caravans for months, so that his grandparents died in prison before he ever found out they had any problems. If we had seen him, even one time, regretting that he wasn’t there for them, I’d feel different about it. But he never does. He blames Elhokar completely. Never a thought for how his own decisions affected the situation, and very little thought for Roshone, who manipulated a foolish young prince into doing him a favor. No, it’s just Elhokar’s fault.
I just realized that there’s a real theme of “being rescued” at the end of this book, despite Sylphrena making it very explicit a few chapters back.
Shallan rescues Adolin in Shadesmar. Dalinar rescues Kaladin by opening the Perpendicularity. Kaladin rescues Dalinar immediately by popping out of the Perpendicularity to block Amaram’s blow. Mayalaran rescues Adolin from the Fused. Adolin rescues his aunt and Queen Fen. Navani rescues Kmakl with the painrial. Both Hrdalm and Renarin rescue Adolin from the thunderclast. Szeth rescues Lift from a thunderclast. Lift rescues Szeth from Nightblood. Jasnah rescues Shallan from the attacking Amaram army, as well as rescuing the walltop royals from flying Fused. Renarin is rescued from fighting 12 Fused single-handedly by Teft and the rest of Bridge Four.
Only Jasnah doesn’t seem to ever need any help.
@41
I felt like the post started hinting at this last week, though I’m not sure it was explicitly expressed this week (apologies if I missed it), but I agree. I feel like this week was all about people failing to do something alone, then succeeding when they let someone help them. I felt that was a major part of this climax – the essentialness of unity and teamwork and that none of them has the power to truly go it alone anymore. The odds are just too great; the power arrayed against them too much.
Random thing: The spear with the crossguard seen in the Kaladin chapter icon must belong to Teft. I want to know to whom the three other spears belong. The only other Bridgeman we know for certain has an honor spren is Lopen.
@9 tjamesmanae, @41 Carl, and @42 Whitespine
This is the theme that I love about Oathbringer. Unity, indeed.
@17 Nina
Kaladin doesn’t get physical strength from his bond, so, either Rock is really just that strong, he has bonded a spren from a different order who des grant him greater strength, or something else weird is going on. I rea]lize my post isn’t helpful at all, it is just that I am also really curious about this.
@28 Carl
I agree with you about Adolin and the Thunderclast. Until a Radiant showed up, he was the best bet for slowing it down. So that’s what he tried to do.
@34 Gepeto
Moash could have changed his path before he got to the Fused by considering the consequences his revenge plans would have on others, and caring enough about them not to drag them down with him. He always had a choice in that. He has a choice whether to collaborate with the Fused.
@35 Iselil
I too was wondering how Renarin could chop through the Thunderclast while being crushed. I guess if his hand was free he could just rotate his wrist, since the blade goes through stone. I did have a hard time picturing it , though, since I would imagine it is hard to get the angle right when pinned down like that. I am also not sure why the Thunderclast left when Renarin glowed with Stormlight.
And I too want to know about where women fit in the Horneater culture and why Rock’s wife can fight with a bow.
I don’t think Moash could have done much about the Roshone Affair after he got back and it was a done deal. As I understand it, Roshone had a politically important relative, so Gavilar forbade anyone to punish him too harshly, so Roshone was shunted off to Hearthstone. Moash’s fault might be in not finding out more about what happened (but we also don’t know if he was stonewalled). As for the caravaner, yeah, Moash was terrible to him, and may likely have been awful to a lot of people before then. The thing is, I find it possible for both things to be true: That his family suffered to a horrible injustice, and that Moash is a jerk. Moash being a jerk doesn’t make the injustice okay. He is at fault for the awful things he does, but he is not at fault for the awful things others do.
@40 WetlanderNW
Although I do agree that Moash not lamenting his absence when his grandparents needed him to be odd, I feel it to be odd because humans tend to beat themselves up for things that they cannot foresee. I don’t think there is anything wrong with not being cut out to be a silversmith, so apprenticing under another relative in a job he might be better suited for. People go elsewhere to train for jobs all the time. Kaladin for example would have left home at age 16 as he was supposed to go train in Karbranth. As it was he was still home when Roshone targeted Tien, and Kaladin still couldn’t save Tien. I don’t think it is a teenager’s fault if they cant protect their family from corruption.
A little bit of Sanderson craftsmanship I noticed in ch. 120 and forgot to post until now.
Adolin at the top of the wall summons Maya to dramatically point with. It’s clearly meant to be dramatic, pointing with a storming Shardblade. Also,
Does that sound like waiting 10 heartbeats for the Blade to appear? Can you picture that scene? “Hey, Adolin, what will you be doing?” [wait 15 seconds to answer while everyone stares at him] [Adolin points] Maya clearly responded instantly, and Adolin unthinkingly expected it. She probably hasn’t been making him wait for some time, and he’s gotten used to it without realizing it.
Then later:
Cousins, and Jasnah helped raise Adolin. Of course they’d have a similar flair for the dramatic!
Sanderson is such a careful writer. He works really hard to make all these layers work, even things as small as relatives having similar mannerisms.
@44
This also makes me wonder why it takes 10 heartbeats in the first place? It doesn’t take 10 for Syl to form a bladeor spear when Kaladin summons/requests her to do so, it is nearly instantaneous.
So, maybe the 10 heartbeats is required to reacquire a link to the Deadeye and bring it into the physical realm from Shadesmar. That would imply that, because Adolin was able to summon Maya in 7, that he has definitely formed some sort of link to her, making it easier/quicker for her to change realms.
@45 Correct, it has been stated….somewhere (either WOB or in book)… that it takes the 10 heartbeats to sync the dead spren’s essence to the shardbearer. A living bond is already in sync, though, so it’s instantaneous.
nightheron @43 – I didn’t say that Moash could have done anything to help his grandparents – it’s that he doesn’t even consider that as a possibility. Can you imagine Kaladin’s reaction if something happened to his parents after he could have left Amaram’s army? He’d never think about them without condemning himself for not having gone back. Granted that Kaladin takes it to the other extreme, but Moash never considers whether he could have done anything. Ever.
When Shallan said “No” to anymore versions of herself climbing from the ground, did she inadvertently heart-speak her Fourth truth?
Also, there needs to be ideaspren that look like lightbulbs. Just a thought…